Back to The Drawing Board
Hi We're Phil and Theo,An architect and intern / student duo talking about all things architecture, architectural education, architectural practice / business and of course total sh*t. Follow Theo's journey to becoming an architect, Phil's journey and his studio's progression, and Phil's houses journey back to life in bi-weekly releases.
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Back to The Drawing Board
Back to the Drawing Board - S4E5 -The Architecture Job Hunt
Ever wondered what happens to your architecture job application after you hit send? In this candid conversation, we pull back the curtain on how small architecture practices really evaluate potential candidates and what actually gets you noticed—or immediately rejected.
Drawing from years of experience reviewing hundreds of applications, we reveal why your portfolio typically carries more weight than your CV, how personality fit often trumps technical perfection, and what fatal application mistakes you might be making without realizing it. From the dreaded mass CC'd email that instantly signals lack of care to the questionable practice of self-rating skills on a five-star scale, we don't hold back on what makes employers cringe.
Beyond the obvious dos and don'ts, we explore the deeper dynamics of small firm hiring: the unpredictable timing of job openings, the importance of showing who you are beyond your professional skills, and why being "teachable" might be your most valuable asset. Whether you're a recent graduate or an experienced professional looking to move to a smaller practice, this episode offers practical insights into crafting applications that truly connect with the humans who'll be reading them.
For those applying to large corporate firms with automated screening systems, we highlight key differences in approach—because knowing your audience might be the most important application strategy of all. Listen in for an honest, sometimes humorous look at what employers are really thinking when they review your materials, and how to stand out in a sea of talented applicants for all the right reasons.
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Are we going on there?
Speaker 1:Yep see that red light.
Speaker 2:Red light.
Speaker 1:Yeah boy, oh yeah, Not sponsored I mean that right there, that's.
Speaker 2:That's the episode. It's been um, so we've got a new setup well, we haven't.
Speaker 1:We're just testing a new setup, yeah, where we have couch, it's more comfortable and we're staring at you, yeah, and my laptop's there. So we've got the notes, but this week we're going to be talking about cvs and job applications now, which is ironic, because I don't have to apply for a job hopefully touch whatever and I uh, I didn't apply for this job. Your mom applied for the show.
Speaker 1:She did anyway I will fight you, so I just stumbled upon it but at the moment we're doing a lot of looking through of CVs and applications because we're forever hiring. So, without further ado, I am Phil, architect and director at PWS Architecture and Design, and this is a man who has never made a CV before.
Speaker 2:Have you, yeah. Do you want to see if I can find it no Good because I won't be CV before? Have you, yeah. Do you want to see if I can find it no Good because I won't be able to. That's why I said no. When I was applying for my various shoe shops, I applied for Lego.
Speaker 1:Ah, yes.
Speaker 2:They rejected me.
Speaker 1:The Dark Ages, the pre-PWS ages.
Speaker 2:I said what would make you good to work at Lego? And I said hate children.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't put that if you're applying for a job that requires working with kids.
Speaker 2:That's what I found yeah, that's probably having any job. To be honest, just beginning with, I hate children, so there's your first bit of advice well, I think that's probably about it.
Speaker 1:That's a wrap good episode. Yeah, you are looking to apply for a role you've seen, or maybe one you haven't seen, and by which I mean applying to usually the bigger places who constantly want to hire someone and they just wait for the cvs to come through and then bring you in, which is what I did a lot of in uni, did a lot of summers, a lot of winters, did a lot of bits here and there, um and they're usually kind of cycling through staff offering summers, internships, christmas work, all of that fun stuff, um.
Speaker 1:But one thing that I thought we'd discuss as a smaller firm, because a lot of people seem to be wanting to get into the smaller places at the moment, because I think you get a lot more involved with things and some people want to be a little bit more I want to use the word important but have a lot more roles, um you're kind of more significant within the firm yeah, I mean I know you by name as, as we all know, my little famous story from a certain large practice I worked at, sat next to someone for three straight months of a summer, literally this close to him because the desks were tiny, and uh, when I left, he said it's been great having you, paul, to which I then said thanks, ewan, and his name was Ian and then he corrected me and I just left it, but here at PWS we have employed.
Speaker 2:Paul Wantersmith.
Speaker 1:Paul Wantersmith. We have employed eight people in the past.
Speaker 2:That's not many, and we've got a lot more CVs compared to those.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, we get a huge amount of CVs, so we've employed five, eight people in the past, but then we have the core team, which which is what I call um the designers yes and well, the core team being you, me and hannah, because we've been here since pretty much, yeah, um day one, and potentially we'll have a ninth person. Well, we do have a ninth person. We're waiting for them to sign. We're just agreeing dates for them to start, which is nice, fully fledged architect this time around, which is going to be a nice change of pace, one of the real ones.
Speaker 1:So I mean, I haven't included you in that. Actually I've realized, I've got it in my notes because you're not technically an employee.
Speaker 2:Contracting, but yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1:I say I spent a lot of time applying for many jobs over summers and winters, but a lot of them didn't necessarily want a CV. They wanted us to kind of say, hey, I'll come work for nothing. That was their criteria.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which, in fairness, is what I did, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then I offered to pay you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I didn't quite catch on to that. That was your first sign. And yet here I am, yeah, rocky like a hurricane, or five, four or five years later that was the.
Speaker 1:That was one of the most infuriating conversations I've ever. I think I was driving when you messaged me and I pulled to the side of the road.
Speaker 2:I was like my uncle's just offered me like an internship at an engineering firm and you're like what about the job I offered you? Yeah, to which my response was what job?
Speaker 1:I believe the conversation I thought you were being sarcastic because you what your message I almost distinctly remember it because it scarred me for life and made me very sad was my uncle has found me a job at an engineering firm. I'm going to go work there because they'll pay me. To which I said I have offered to pay you and you went have you Shit.
Speaker 2:I'll stay here Because I remember, because, yeah, because I'd been working on some live projects. And then you were like, oh, I'm earning money from this, I should probably pay you. And I didn't quite catch on to the fact that what you meant there was I will pay you. In my head I was just like, yeah, you probably should. Yeah, that does sound like me very non-committal. Maybe that would be nice, wouldn't?
Speaker 1:it. At least by now you've learned to read between the lines a little bit um, someone in the office has to be able to decipher you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1:And my handwriting, because my handwriting is atrocious, um, but yeah, we I've worked in sort of various size places and I've always been offered a job. What I've needed, um, and when I did so. For many of you if you're in the uk you'll know you do your part one, then you, well, I did the traditional route part one year out, part two, year out um, part three in a roundabout way, that period between your part one and your part two. For that year out I applied for 20, I think I did 22 applications and got offered I think it was like 21 jobs.
Speaker 1:I'm sure there was like one place that actually just didn't get back to me, which I don't necessarily put down to my work, because I think at stage, at part one particularly, we don't and I know places I've worked, worked at before aren't necessarily hiring you based on how good the work is in your cv. They're kind of based on how you mentally do you fit into that kind of that working room. Yeah, yeah, um, but the big place is just want bodies and want card monkeys and usually want someone who can at least turn up, do something and and leave, um, but so I've kind of I've always had I will. I mean, we've only hired two people at part one you and the audience, the sort of audience?
Speaker 1:yeah, because we weren't actually we weren't actually intending on hiring a part one, um no, we just saw an opportunity for someone who kind of fit in really well and it was kind of not a personality hire, but that was what got us through the door and I always think that's probably what got me through smaller places.
Speaker 2:It's probably a really significant thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's huge yeah, I think I realized that when I was doing the hiring and firing elsewhere, when I was working somewhere else, cause I was surprised when we didn't do, cause it was the first time I'd experienced doing a lot of that kind of side of things, where it wasn't behind curtains Like I was. I was at the forefront, I wasn't the applicant, I was in the company and a lot of the conversation was around like oh yes, but do I want to be sat in an office with that person?
Speaker 2:all day.
Speaker 1:Talk to them, yeah, every day we've had a few where we've kind of said no, but they'd be good workers and they seem like the type of people who would just be neutral.
Speaker 2:And we've had that here. Yeah, I mean, and and they've, regardless of how it may have ended, they've been very good at the job and it's one of them. Eventually a person will talk to you, but you kind of have to accept sometimes that they might just sit there and silent and silencing. To be honest, if someone's happy to do that and they do a very good job, it's not a bad thing, yeah like I say, some.
Speaker 1:Some people see work as a nine to five something to do during that nine to five thing to get paid to go home at the end of the day. What I thought we'd touch on first is when do we employ and what, and like our routine and our method, and maybe that gives some people a bit of an insight into what someone of a similar size to us might be looking for see, I think when it's smaller it's almost a bit sporadic, of like.
Speaker 2:Sometimes we realize we need a person and we start hiring, and then we find someone and then someone else leaves. And then we realize we need a person and we start hiring, and then we find someone and then someone else leaves, and then we realize we're always one team member short.
Speaker 1:Well, I think we're going to end up putting another advert out once some new person comes in and settles um, not looking to, I'm not not.
Speaker 1:No, I'll see, it's if the right person comes along yeah, at that point we're no longer on the back foot, we're on the front foot, yeah anyway.
Speaker 1:So typically, um, we hire when we have too much on, which is all the time, but it's when it gets to that point of we've got too much on and we've also got people kind of saying where is our stuff, even though we've said you know it's two or three months, and it gets to that kind of two or three months but I'm going, oh dear, we've got bit to pick up on and a lot of slack to pick up.
Speaker 1:And sometimes it's like we want to be able to jump on certain projects that come up that have a tighter deadline and we just don't have the facilities to take that on, like the barn conversion I'm working on now. I've only been able to jump onto that short notice and turn it around quickly because I've got you and the other members of staff, the audiences, the various audiences yeah, to deal with all those other bits, which frees me up to do stuff like that. And obviously, once we've got a bigger team, it frees up more people to do stuff like that. And some clients don't mind when you sort of say you know you're not looking to do anything anytime soon. Do you mind if we maybe push you back a couple of weeks so we can slot something else in?
Speaker 2:then you get to planning and you can rely on. The plan is just yeah, it's taking far too long. So you know you have time to do something well, which is the other thing that would be.
Speaker 1:The major problem we have is we get projects like that where it's I'm not just saying this to cover our own back, but through no fault of our own. Projects are delayed by statutory authority, or we've got to wait for bat reports to come in, which can only be done between may and september.
Speaker 1:Like all of these things can sometimes push and pull, it just tends to be that four or five of the big projects all at once all get through planning all the exact same time they're all delayed and they all come through planning at once and you're like great, so now I've got four or five, and it's always the big ones, because obviously the big ones are always the most complicated, which takes the most time to get through planning and the most back and forth. And then suddenly you go, you've got four or five projects and now-.
Speaker 2:And not to say that smaller jobs don't matter, but when it's a bigger project it's more significant, especially financially, to us.
Speaker 1:So it's prioritise this and timescales wise. Yeah, I take a job it takes longer to do, like. That's just kind of the ins and outs of it. There's no getting around that, but that's typically when we tend to employ and we've been kind of working on getting us in front of that line, which is going okay at the minute, is it? Yeah, oh, I don't think we're doing too bad, like we're booked up. Well, we are now First second week of March.
Speaker 2:We're booked up, but we're not necessarily rushing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're booked up until July, but it's like a nice floor rather than us chasing our tail, and then obviously you leave as the new person comes in. They can pick up that bit of slack, yeah, so where we're saying we could do with an extra person. If that person comes in before you come back, then we're almost then ahead. And then it's do we start advertising for work for the first time in six years, which would be a nice treat? Anyway, that's typically when we go in. Normally it's been oh balls, we've got loads of work, we need to get someone in. There has been an occasion last year where we were about to hire anyway and then someone said I'm looking to move to.
Speaker 2:I want to go explore a different type of practice. I want to go work in a big firm.
Speaker 1:I want blah blah. So we then were on the back, very suddenly, massively on the back. Yeah, um, but it is what it is. So we have, in the past, advertised online. So we've done linkedin, we've done, indeed, and we've done the reba jobs most recently yeah, did, the reba jobs was the most recent one.
Speaker 2:Did Reba get you anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we got Did it get you anything worthwhile. We got three or four and there were some that were worth considering. The problem we've had with so we find the problems with each of them are different. So with LinkedIn, we got a lot of applicants who didn't meet the qualifications. So we said we wanted a? Um, an arb registered architect who can drive, oh yeah, and what we got was a lot of people applying. From part one.
Speaker 2:Part two, we had a few people you have to filter for all of that and go.
Speaker 1:No, no, no it always feels bad rejecting people, but it's like you're almost kind of like well, you don't meet what we asked for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um with, regardless of how good you might be, you're not actually the minimum requirement.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, so linkedin, I think we got a really good widespread of the wrong people in the correct industry, in roughly the right place, as in they were applying from the northeast of England, where we are based. And then we had Read, which we typically get anything from anywhere. We had someone who was I think they were leaving Greggs, no degrees in architecture or anything like that. It seemed really weird. The same with Indeed, and I think those two are so nonspecific, obviously, linkedin being a business website.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it seems really weird. The same with, indeed, and I think those two are so non-specific. Obviously I think it's good. Business website. Yeah, it's good for the architect, for the uh, for the applicant. Sorry, yeah, um, being able to. Well, you know, shy, ben's getting out. Maybe you know you're not qualified, but hey, give it a shot well, that's how we ended up with yeah, exactly so.
Speaker 2:so it can, from the applicant's side point of view, kind of be a really useful thing to be able to apply to stuff that you're not qualified for. Yeah, because it could work out for you. So almost, I suppose, as annoying as it might be for the employer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't worry about their feelings entirely annoying, like it's nice to see people are interested, but it's just a pain to have to. Well, it's not pain, it's just upsetting to have to constantly reject hundreds, well literally hundreds, of people sometimes. I think the most we've ever had in one run was 189, which was mad. I mean. So reed, and indeed have a similar problem, which is anyone from anywhere at any time.
Speaker 1:We got several from foreign countries saying that they'll work for three dollars an hour or something, which obviously doesn't work for us. That's not well, for many reasons that doesn't work for us, which I'm not going to go into. But primarily we want someone sitting in the office with us, someone we can engage with. Um, the reba jobs one was the interesting one because we got a lot of applicants who were applicable. We did get someone called from the opposite end of the country saying they were looking to relocate and for us we're not willing to kind of put someone on the line and say, oh yeah, come up to the northeast of england, change your life, move up, and then say they turn out to not be good at their job or for whatever other reason, we have to remove them.
Speaker 2:Suddenly they've moved hundreds of miles potentially hating their new location, they hate their new location.
Speaker 1:They, like you, never know what's going to come through the door. As much as you can interview someone you know people can put on the front for the hours worth of interviewing and then reveal who they really are afterward, like there could be any number of problems that pop up. And so suddenly they're in a new place. They've signed on to a job that's no longer wanting them, but yeah, so we weren't looking for something like that, but funnily then where we get people from, so I've had to put them. No one else can see that the you know who the initials are.
Speaker 1:So we got one person who and um, actually that's not true. Oh, yes, it's true, sorry. So you had one person who came via the website. Essentially they were looking to move up to newcastle from stockton, which, if anyone knows, is sort of an hour's hour, an hour and a half drive yeah, somewhere on those lines. They decided to um, but they were looking to come up and so they were looking at places within the area, and then that's how they sort of came across those they saw on the website. We were advertising to hire a part two. They were a part two looking to finish their part three, and so they inquired um.
Speaker 2:Similarly with the newest member of the audience.
Speaker 1:The newest member of the audience. The newest member of the audience. She was just moving to Newcastle, applied at a bunch of places and found us. Then we had one who came in.
Speaker 2:Oh, no way, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So we had one who came in because someone who was working here went to university with her and they reposted our advert for a new member of staff. She saw it, she applied, she works here. We had one who came because he was basically my best friend.
Speaker 2:Well, two, I suppose, because I did the same thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a fair point.
Speaker 2:With a less direct route about it, he and I had always spoken about opening the practice together.
Speaker 1:Opening a practice together, opening a practice together. Obviously, I had to open this for fair. It was a different episode to talk about, but so we ended up. He was in a bad spot for a number of reasons, one of which was work, and I said well, I need a new set of hands and I trust you and I know we work well together because we worked well together at uni and you need something to help you, I'll help you. Those two came through, indeed at the same time, okay, one of which was just finishing university lives, because you've never met her, had you? No, she. We ended up doing two zoom meetings and she made a good reference. Yes, she made all the rings reference, which is always a good start.
Speaker 2:God the job you know, the personality works, yeah, um that were so.
Speaker 1:And they she, they no she. I know it's a she anyway it's not that relevant. Yeah, um lives in the same city basically yeah, she's from the same county as us so we were local to her. Easy for her to get to work, so that works well, as you drove her to work. That one was a bit of a risk hire but we needed someone at the time who was willing to do some of the wanted. Specifically asked for some of the smaller jobs little extensions, refurbishments, garage conversions.
Speaker 2:And he was great. I was about to say he wasn't bad at it, was he? He just had different ambitions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so his just had different ambitions. Yeah, his, so his long-term goal bearing in mind, he also already had properties?
Speaker 1:good question, actually long-term goals yeah, I think that's what we'll move. I think there's somewhere in there. Um, but he, he had his long-term goals of going back into, like, expanding and furthering his property development company and what he was doing was studying at university to become a surveyor, because he wanted to be able to walk into a building and assess things, and then he wanted us to help with the designing and reconfiguration side of his. So he wanted to be able to walk into a building. Understand, oh, there's a damn problem there. This is how I fix it and this is how I could do an extension. This is how I could get it through planning deal with building regs. Um, in the end, he basically just ran out of time. He had two kids yes, two kids and was expecting a third when we last spoke. Does he still work in the industry? Yes, I think he's still doing his university stuff. He's working in the industry. How old?
Speaker 2:is he?
Speaker 1:40-something. He was considerably older. But, yeah, that was one of those, not a desperation hire, but at the time we did desperately need someone. But this one was a desperation hire, yeah, and it didn't work. It did not work at all. No, it was someone who had a lot of credibility, had a lot of the CV, looked good in terms of work, but it was a bit of a disaster and couldn't seem to conform to our standards to link it back to the actual title of the episode.
Speaker 2:That was a lot of talking, I know, until to link all back, I suppose, within the cvs. What makes them each promising, regardless of where they've come from?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that one was had a lot of relevant industry work and also had some hands-on work, having worked with a contractor doing building.
Speaker 2:I thought he was in commercial stuff.
Speaker 1:He had. So, yes, but he was also working for a contractor, hands-on building things like extensions et cetera.
Speaker 2:To make another tangent, I remember the other day we were having a conversation about the newest hire, about your relevance and kind of almost one bit of advice, I would suppose, is saying don't be afraid to apply to a place that mainly works in a different area of the industry. We mainly do residential and he's mainly worked in commercial.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but he wants to get into yeah, that's which is what I was going to speak about, but yeah am I getting ahead of myself a little bit, but it's all right no, it's all right if we can.
Speaker 1:We can pivot.
Speaker 1:But yeah, if he because he wants to get into that higher end residential side of things and he wants to bolster that, because he's got some experience in resi and he's got some experience in that high-end stuff, he just wants to bolster that and also he wants to work in this place, because we kind of spoke about we want someone who can take on a lot of roles and if he's going to go and start his own, which is his long term goal, he'll kind of want to dip his toe into that side of things here.
Speaker 1:Where it doesn't, the consequences aren't on him, they're on us. For him to then learn some of those lessons, to then leave, and which is fine by me, cause what I've said to him is like we'll teach you everything you want, cause I'm not afraid of competition in a way, but also, I think, the more people there are pushing that agenda the more people we employ, the more you realize how many apprentices we have and how much you do actually enjoy designing, raising people through it yeah, no, it's my favorite thing, to be honest, and it's something he's he's passionate about as well, but I think for me there's I don't see a problem with training people how to do start their own practice, because the more of us there are, more architects are doing this kind of stuff hopefully, the more amazing things can be designed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if I'm designing them all, they're all going to look or be quite similar. If there's 20 of us, there's going to be 20 different solutions to one problem hopefully um, that cv was really, actually, really good. Yeah, it was actually it was very impressive.
Speaker 2:It was a really interesting. It was interesting, I wouldn very impressive it was a really interesting.
Speaker 1:It was interesting, I wouldn't say things like the technical detailing etc were perfect. But you don't expect that at part one level.
Speaker 2:But it was a deep dive into everything. Yeah, when you look at the portfolio work for for this particular one, it was a really deep dive into every aspect of it and even if the technical wasn't right, it had been researched, been thought about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, there was. You even see, like, when you're talking about vapor control layers and you think for a part one, to be kind of, I know different universities produce different levels of design, detailing and stuff, but needing to have stuff like that in there was quite impressive. And, like you look at the spans of the steels and the depths of them and they're not like a line, they're like a good chunky thickness, um, I'd be interested to see what you would think of um a portfolio from my uni because a lot of technical work.
Speaker 1:We've had technical assignments well, have any of your friends started applying, because they could send one over and I'd take a look at it. Yeah, it might even be worth. It might be a good second short video of us reviewing their portfolio. Redact all their information, get their permission and then, if anyone wants to send in a cv and portfolio, I'll rinse it for free. Yeah, write that down, send to ask us at back to the drawing boarduk. Um, I had a lot of residential but had actually just done a lot of the planning side of the residential for that, which makes sense, because she loves a report. Yeah, and the admin side of architectural stuff, which works quite well for us, because we don't like doing that. Doesn't matter, doesn't matter. He was my best friend, yeah, and I know he does good work and he also works at one of our competitors and I know that they you didn't want him working there no, it's not.
Speaker 1:I didn't want him working there. It was more of a. He worked at one of our competitors, so I knew that the stuff he was doing was relevant to us. Um, what made their portfolios go that?
Speaker 2:um.
Speaker 1:Masters like to know masters in um had a master's degree in heritage and conservation, as well as relevant stuff working at beamish museum for you.
Speaker 2:How much of it is the portfolio? How much of it is portfolio is probably 75 the cv, and then how much of it is actually when you meet the person and like the interview. This is what I want to know what's what? What holds the most weight for you? How much? Because, because you can look at a portfolio and go, okay, that's not the best, but having met you, I think I can help. And then, if you see a really good cv with a bad portfolio, vice versa, which is more likely to get the interview?
Speaker 1:Answer all of the questions. A good portfolio is more likely to get you through the door with us. Because I don't and I'll get into this a bit on this but I don't feel like CVs. People use them to represent themselves. They use them to represent their work and their experience, which is kind of what a CV is. So we then base it on the portfolio because that's a body of work. If we think the work is sufficiently thought through like if I'm looking at something like a plant room and it's this big and the building is this big, um, I know that there's certain bits of forethought that are missing there. So if I look at because the way that we operate and I might as well, it's somewhere written in here, but we'll break, we'll break script, that's fine. We were better that way I know it hurts you, but no, it doesn't.
Speaker 1:It helps. If anything. What I tend to find is we get through. We get an email that comes in three pieces cover letter, cv, portfolio. Cover letter is essential. Well, should we want to cover that now then, because i've've got that written there.
Speaker 2:We're here, let's do it.
Speaker 1:First of all, this needs to be said very, very, very clearly Use blind carbon copy. If you are going to email multiple people at once, write the list into the blind carbon copy. Do your draft close it, come back and double check it's in blind carbon copy. We must get. I would say, every time we've put out and we've received a load of applicants, we've probably had a good 10, 15 people. So what? Like 5, 10% of people sending in a CV and a portfolio to us, not blind carbon copied in Like 10 of a carbon copied in, like 10 of a firm, so like 100 of them yeah and you're just like.
Speaker 2:Well, I can see you don't care. It's not a cover letter and ideally you can see all of the other people's. God don't, don't copy.
Speaker 1:Send it multiple times to individual people and our email system will tell you, as if we're blind, carbon yeah, we'll say bcc plus 40 yeah, um, which that doesn't bother me, because to me I get it. You want for a cv, it's fair enough, I get it. It's a blank cover letter. No, the point, because a lot of the time people send it's personal a cover letter is why I want to work for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, which I get is a bit of an ego thing for us, but still yeah fluff me.
Speaker 1:So it's one of those. But I don't mind being blind carbon copied in because I feel like at least you've not mistakenly cc'd in 25 people and we all know who each other are. Yeah, um, the irony is that the amount of times I've seen someone apply for somewhere that I know isn't employing or somewhere that's like, that's just completely different. But the cover letter, so cover letter, either. People attach them and someone will send me an email. Dear whoever, dear fail, dear hannah, dear hiring manager, whatever please find attached cover letter, cv, portfolio. Warmest of regards, theo wicks. People will send a generic email with the cover letter, then the cv, then the portfolio, but the most common one, I would say, is someone who emails the cover letter. The email is the cover letter.
Speaker 2:Um, so as a separate pdf I Do.
Speaker 1:You want it as a separate PDF. No, I'd like it in the email. I don't really mind though. Ideally, though, send them separately and speak individually. So when I did a big, blanket bombing of CVs, I did a blanket, blind carbon copy to a lot of the generic big firms and then the smaller firms I was really interested in. I did personal ones.
Speaker 2:I think that's a big thing is because at a smaller firm excuse me, because at a smaller firm, when someone gets your CV and they're actually considering you, they're going to read the cover letter. It's not like you hear about the big firms you send it to them and they've got. You get all this advice from unis on how to like make yourself stand out in 10 seconds or something and you have to, within the first few lines, have caught their eye so that they even consider you, whereas at a smaller firm, once you've got to that point, they are going to fully consider everything and we are going to sit around with everyone in the office and just rinse your portfolio. So it's like details really, I think, significant in smaller firms.
Speaker 1:And that's the thing is, we always say, like, try not to copy and paste it if you do, do little tweaks here and there. So it was a firm we look at. Basically, we care and we look at all points of it and we can sniff out a copy and paste job on my other way, especially if you forget to blind carbon copy us. Um, tell us who. So what we're looking for first thing is tell us who you are and what you bring to the table, and not in terms of I have a master's degree in this and I'm really interested in that. It's more of a talk about you as an individual and as a person.
Speaker 1:What makes you special and unique to us, um, favorite color, why you'd be about, why you'd be a valued member of the social enterprise of the team, not just a valued member of the social enterprise of the team, not just a valued member of the team. I mean, we consider the coffee machine as an important member of the team. Oh, yeah, yeah. So if you have a skill mentioned and we love diversity, like when we had our latest interview mentioned that we were quite forward with I think it said biodiversity, then with neurodivergency, diversity, whatever, we're quite forward on that I don't think there's a neuronormie among us yeah, I don't think there is, I just think there is.
Speaker 1:I don't think I'm meant to say it like that, but there's one that you're all losers if you are, that's fair um, but yeah, we, we always try to celebrate someone being unique, and so showing us why you're unique is a good reason for us to bring you on, because, like you know, it doesn't matter to me if you're whatever, as long as you know we can get along, then you can work it anyway.
Speaker 1:So if you want to work a small, firm you are you probably, people probably care about who you are and try and trees try not to say dear hiring manager, dear sirs or madam, find out who you're talking to. So our website, we tell you who we are and what each person does.
Speaker 2:So the smaller firm.
Speaker 1:They probably, if they have a website, they probably have a meet the team yeah find out, go on that and meet the team so if you go on that, you'll see I'm director. Hannah is the office admin, so you'll be able to reasonably assume you are addressing either hannah or I, and it takes two seconds. I can go on any firm's website of our size at least and go. That's who I'm probably going to be speaking to. It makes makes no difference to us if you address. So when you do send through an email, it goes to info at which is hannah's inbox, not my inbox.
Speaker 1:But if you said, hi, phil, you've tried and that's the important bit for us as well we won't get offended if you get it wrong because you tried. Um, a lot of the time we have a few that call us and then we say can you send us an email, um? And then ask yourself why a lot when you proofread it. So if you write a sentence like, I believe I would be a great addition to your team why I would love to join your firm, why like what?
Speaker 2:what's why? Why this firm? Yeah, why the other thing? What sets us apart? That makes you?
Speaker 1:set apart from everyone else. So that's kind of the first stage of it. Then it's like well, I suppose it's also then proofreading that email. Grammatical errors they happen. Spelling errors they happen.
Speaker 2:There's worse things in life especially during, so you don't want to judge it especially during like this is a stressful process for anyone.
Speaker 1:years, ten years of cursed bricks, but a half to finish sentence is Embarrassing. Send the email the next day, go for a walk, come back Boo, bad joke, boo, I was. We always say, especially we do it when we send important emails to clients. Write the email, don't put them into the send to thing close it. Go for a walk, come back, read through it.
Speaker 2:Add them, send it, make sure you haven't written what you're actually thinking and the big one, to be honest.
Speaker 1:Attach the attachments.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, I'm going to hype up Gmail right now. Okay, yeah. And look, I can't speak for over emails because I don't really use them, because I do like Gmail. I can't speak for other emails because I don't really use them, because I do like Gmail. And if you say the words find attached or I have attached, or anything along those lines? I believe you haven't. When you hit, send it will stop. You flag up a banner saying did you mean to attach something?
Speaker 1:Well, the place I'm consulting with at the minute has that system built into theirs as well, which is good.
Speaker 2:It's amazing because, like you, just so, at least I know it can be done on outlook. I'm not sure if it's automatic or not these days emails, email systems with that are fantastic and life-saving, because it's happened to me a few times where I've hit send me, yeah, and it happens all the time. It just stops you and goes I think you're meant to do this. Yep, maybe, maybe it's just a standard thing now. Yeah, it's fantastic.
Speaker 1:So I think the next thing you also asked was CV versus portfolio. Cv is your chance to show me who you are.
Speaker 2:Why is that not the cover letter? What do you mean by who?
Speaker 1:So what I'm sick to death of seeing is that's just professional facts CV yeah, so yes but I would like a a bit of personality in it. Um, my mind was always, especially if you're going to copy and paste that cover letter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, make something a little bit more special about your cv. My mind in my head it was always cover is this is who I am and why I, why I've chosen to apply to you. And then cv is just this is who I am professionally.
Speaker 1:Well, this is what I can do. A lot of the time when we do so, we've got a folder of people we're interested in. We put it into there if the CV comes in as attachment the attachments. Yeah, just something to fiddle with. The attachments get saved, so this is a chance because you get a lot of them. There's like a tiny paragraph in the top left hand side that's like well, the bit that annoys me is I like canoeing. I love Lego is always the first thing. Oh, I love architecture.
Speaker 2:We all love it. Every one of us yeah everyone on the planet loves Lego.
Speaker 1:Especially anyone applying for architecture Right. Anyone before three and anyone after 99 can't play with it. Obviously, Obviously, that's based on the box. Yeah, so if?
Speaker 2:you're 99, obviously we won't discriminate you, but if you say you love Lego, we will report you. Yeah, but I do not want to see I love.
Speaker 1:I love architecture because I started my life playing with lego. I don't want to see that you've watched every episode of grand designs or that george clark is your childhood hero. We know that chances are. If you're going to want to be an architect, dealt with all of that. Um, tell me what you do outside of work. Um, like, it's just like we put that on our staff profiles. Like I'm, I was third ranked in the uk at strongman theo's, a junior powerlifting champion. Sofia used to roll for the. Oh, she nearly got into the olympics. Like, lauren loves football. It's been one of those things. I have to bleep the names and we all love beer, yeah, and we're gonna have to.
Speaker 1:Well, I love cocktails, but we're gonna have to do that. That's why we include that on the website and it might be a case of go through that website, find the meet the team thing and, almost verbatim don't copy and paste because that'll be obvious. But if you take that as a template for what we value about our employees and our staff and our team, might be what we value about you if you come to us might be what we value about you if you come to us.
Speaker 2:I think I mean, from what I've looked at on other firms websites, the way they set out their website can make it can probably quite sorry, can probably make it quite obvious of like how they work. And I've seen a few where you'll go onto their website and they're really talking about their studio culture and you know they'll have them meet the team. If they've got to meet the team, if they've got to meet the team, then they're probably a really tight knit group of people because they don't. If they don't have that, they don't really give a crap about you that's the thing with big firms.
Speaker 1:They don't tend to have stuff like that, and there are some that do.
Speaker 2:I'm fostering, fostering partners have it and you can just go through like all a thousand of the partners. It's crazy. In fairness, credit where it's due, but it's like you can go through like all a million employees.
Speaker 1:They have all right then but I tend to find the big, the bigger dogs don't have as much of that or they just have the key players because they cycle through staff so much.
Speaker 1:But then after that is where I care about your experience, your rewards, and stop showing the icons taken from the internet to show us, like, how good you are at using cad on a scale of one, three stars, give yourself five and then, or a circle with it in, and then the amount that the circle is either filled or it's not a premier, how good you are, yeah because we've I've had someone that rates themselves, I think we, I think they put themselves down as four out of five stars on cad or something daft. They came in and they didn't realize polylines were a thing, or they couldn't make a polyline from lines.
Speaker 1:It's like it's relative, like you think you're good at it because you've spent so long doing it. But realistically, if you don't know their favorite, what's everyone's favorite command, oops.
Speaker 2:And if you don't know that, then frankly, you're missing the joy from your life.
Speaker 1:You've been working with a different software because oops is a great command, um, so that's, that's funny I love showing people.
Speaker 2:I don't even know how to use it properly, but I love showing people. What I tend to do is I'll I just type it in and then see what the consequences are.
Speaker 1:I'll delete I'll delete something. Do a bunch stuff moving around.
Speaker 2:Because it undoes the last delete, doesn't it yeah?
Speaker 1:So if you and it works quite well.
Speaker 2:It's great when you actually need to use it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So what I'm looking for in the CV is your experience and is it relevant to us. Awards depend on where you're coming from, so if you're coming with the student award, I don't hold that with too much merit, because a lot of that's fantastical stuff rather than real life stuff.
Speaker 2:Chances are you've not won an award at a university level for an incredible, but you might have won a student award for the Kingspan Student Award or something, in which case theirs is all applied stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you can check the parameters of stuff like that, I suppose. If you theirs is all applied stuff, yeah and at least. But you can check the parameters of stuff like that I suppose. But there are some of If you've won an award. Definitely put it in there are some of yeah, oh God, yeah put it in.
Speaker 1:But they don't necessarily mean that much to me. What means the most to me is I have relevant experience working in residential or, if you're a part. One was a series of floating. It was a floating hostel and it was a series of basically micro homes jet on a jetty that were made of the saturday other than they were floating on the water, and that was because I love resi.
Speaker 2:Something like that works quite well because you kind of or if you, if you haven't got the relevant experience, say why I know if you've even bothered to apply and be like this is. I really want to get into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah well which is what recent exactly wants to get back in, to do more about the portfolio, though I think for me, the portfolio holds more weight.
Speaker 2:Now I've got questions for you about the portfolio, so yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:So my thinking is because I know you asked, or which is more important, like weight them on cv, portfolio and interview and cover letter. For me, cover letters, probably it's the first hurdle. Then, past the first hurdle, it's those two of those two. If you took it at 100, I'd probably say 75 if it's the portfolio we're always gonna take the chance to look at your portfolio.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it's really fun. Yeah, it's a great 15 minute break. Yeah, it's it's. Regardless of how good it is it's not even just kind of worse the better it's not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not even just a case of looking through and saying what's good and what's bad. Sometimes it's really interesting to see people's solutions to problems. Um, and looking and looking at something I'm, I can see the thought process or I can see this works. This doesn't work. What's good, what's bad? In what way would we design it differently? And is there an interesting solution to the problem that you've pulled out of left field or from outside of the box?
Speaker 2:You're starting to answer one of my questions there, but I've put down plans versus 3Ds, versus scheme, so I like a range of work from a range of levels, because we are really heavy on 3Ds, to the point where we really like to do good detail ones.
Speaker 1:Would you, if you were applying somewhere, would you be sending just or would you be sending the visuals as a primary bit?
Speaker 2:I'd say I have a lot of killer images, which my killer images that I've worked on are mainly visual. Would you?
Speaker 1:not Because I like a range and I like to see minimum plan elevation.
Speaker 2:But plans are the key thing, because plans are how it all works.
Speaker 1:Plan elevation I'm not too bothered about because you can pick that up from a visual. So really I'm going plan visual technical. Now your technical can be a section, it can be details, it can be an interesting internal solution to a problem, a hidden door, something like that. But I like to see a range from a range of levels and a range of the Reba scale, range of sort of the Reba scale, we'll call it the Reba scale. So that's stages zero to seven, although it'd be difficult to show stage seven Just stood in a finished house going it's done, it's done.
Speaker 2:That would be really impressive, though, if you could show a picture of finished work that you've designed.
Speaker 1:Yes, that is nice finished work that you've designed. Yes, that is nice, um and realistically. That portfolio also gives us an opportunity to see how you've developed and how quickly, because what I like to see is here's some university work. Look how, how creative I can be yeah here's some real work I've done.
Speaker 1:Here's how I can apply my creativity yeah because then and then what it also says is before I started working, I did a lot of watercolor, and when I started working I realized that probably isn't appropriate or I couldn't do it because, like, that's not how we operated. And so here's my, here's my cad skills. Or here's how bad my cad used to be and here's how good it is now yeah, if you can show your ability to improve, that's really good yeah, because we can then go okay and teach you yeah, you're teachable because teachable is half the bloody problem.
Speaker 2:Teachables, I think, as again at a small firm, which is obviously the thing we can give the most relevant comment on being teachable yeah, it's really massive, and when you get someone who's not teachable, well, you, just you hit the cap.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's it, and I mean we've had it where people have been really good when they come in, and that's great because they're coming in really good, but they've not been teachable and they've gone any further. Yeah, and more importantly, they've not adapted to our systems, which, obviously, although the final product's great, it makes them quite hard to work with which is important If they leave, for example, or if they're on holiday and someone else has to pick up the project.
Speaker 1:You've then got to learn their system to be able to implement drawings and implement changes, or what have you. Yeah, which is an absolute infuriating thing. But with the portfolio as well, it's a lot more visually interesting, and so it catches your eye yeah, format it nicely and inoffensively. And I don't mean don't use bright pink and don't do x, y and z, I just mean, especially if you're going to use in design for this, it has a lot of use style.
Speaker 1:Yeah, have a style. Use the guides. Use the master pages on things like in design, where you can then it proves.
Speaker 2:You know how to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, true, but it also but it also means that it's a coherent package of work. Um, I get that it's subjective and I'm not gonna like don't, and I'm not saying don't go wild to stand out, um, but it can be really obnoxious to make it stand out for no reason like mine was all.
Speaker 2:This is my, uh, most recent university one. It's all a dark gray background and then when I get to like the actual design section, I switch it and then when I get to my visuals I switch it back again. Yeah, and it's kind of that. It's all on theme and that's it makes it, I think, a lot nicer to just view. And none of it's, none of its bright popping stuff, yeah, but it kind of almost. I think you want to be careful that it's not your theme that is catching your eye yeah, but it's.
Speaker 1:It's the content that's catching your eye, but the theme that makes it so much nicer yeah and I see I don't also mind if that theme so say you've got, you're using a particular. You've said gray there.
Speaker 2:So say you're using so common.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm becoming to realize yeah, we've seen a lot of orange I've seen a few orange and yellow.
Speaker 2:I like orange but which is really annoying because the only color you can see um, oh, there, it is the uh.
Speaker 1:So a lot of the time, what we'll find is people change the color through the portfolio as the projects change, which I don't mind either, but let's keep.
Speaker 2:You're in a section yeah, exactly that, but keep the formatting, the, the fonts, oh god the fonts keep similar, similar, like if if it's a pastel color, make sure it's pastel colors all the way through, which it probably is going to be, because that's the trend at the minute keep. Keep the kind of the style of the color, yeah, within, within a theme, so like I know you got like tokyo theme, yeah, and one and I keep it if you get it.
Speaker 1:I mean that's a crazy one, it's gonna be bright and neon, but keep it like that yeah, and then at least that whole that stitches all the projects together into one, and then bonus points.
Speaker 1:If you then have your cv, look the same yeah to be honest, um, but it's nice, but it's not essential, but it's nice for them to match um. But then one thing I've noticed recently and I really like is people putting supplementary things in. So what we have and we encourage the people in the office, is to make their own memorable mentions to make, to make their own professional um instagram. Yeah, because then obviously we tag you in the stuff you do and so it kind of builds. It builds our social network outward, but it also builds their social network and gives them a portfolio of their work that they can go somewhere else with it. And we've noticed more and more people.
Speaker 2:It's getting really popular. There was one end of year show I went to at my uni and this one lass had designed her own tile cladding. She had a really impressive project and she'd actually created the tiles. And at the end of year show she um, she'd actually created the tiles and at the end of year show she brought a bunch of the tiles and stuck a qr code on the back of them with like a business card on it.
Speaker 2:That was actually really cool, which reminds me I think she she's one of those people who is, like to this day, used really commonly as example, yeah, like, yeah, exemplars on loads of different. She was crazy good at it to to stuff.
Speaker 1:And I think it reminds us remember when we went to someone's exhibition Mm-hmm and no one was stood by their work. No, no one had any information on how to Like. We'd had a few drinks and we were stood next to some of the work going. It'd be really nice to speak to this person we're looking to employ and like, honestly, going, it'd be really nice to speak to this person we're looking to employ and like honestly, the students were like tucked up in a corner just huddled together. Yeah, it was so bizarre, like there was like like I get it.
Speaker 2:If like like a part one level where you're kind of in your first three years you're not necessarily looking for employment, you're still trying to work and you're not entirely sure what the hell you do. Yeah, but when you've finished your master's and you and you works up on a wall, stand by it because people are, as you say, walking around looking to employ. I mean, it happens that you you got an invite from one of your friends and someone we had offered employment to was going to be there, so we're kind of interested to go and say hello, but we're gonna do that more often?
Speaker 2:I think yeah and the point is there are. You do get loads of people going out trying to poach the really good students, which is like Well, that's the point, isn't it?
Speaker 1:So be there to be poached. That's the point of the exhibition. When I did that so many moons ago, we were told, weren't we?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we were told. Get some business cards. Stand by your work. Have contact information for when you're not there because they stay up for weeks. The tiles were so cool. You put some information for how to get in touch with you on, like next to the, next to the drawings or even on the drawings. Have some contact information. You know a link to a website or qr code or something like that. It's mad to just see that wasn't happening and weirdly and it's not a knock on interior designers or anything the interior design course had all of that. They had a picture of the person. They had the name, not the address. They said the address, the email address, and they had a contact number. Some of them didn't have a contact number, which is fair. You don't want to put your private number out there, totally understand. And then they had a qr code to whatever it was, like a wordpress page or their own instagram for their work. That was all and everyone was formatted the same way and it was so easy to walk up. This is really interesting.
Speaker 1:Top right hand side, that's who it is and you could even almost turn around in the room and go you.
Speaker 2:I like your work. We had to submit a competition banner for our most recent one. It was A3, twice lengthways, or something like that At the bottom. I just stuck my. I spelt it wrong, so that's terrible, oh my God. But I just have my Instagram handle and my name and it's like if anyone wants to see it, they could go all right. Here's the easiest way to make contact.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's the big thing is being able to be contactable as well. I can't believe I'm contacting them. So I mean, no wonder you haven't got a pretty job. God, I know, so I know you. Then what's the the priority? So for me, it's yeah.
Speaker 2:Is the cover letter good to get you through the door?
Speaker 1:the portfolio then I'd say is probably 70, 75. The cv, because more only because people don't seem to put into a cv what I want, that kind of you personally don't like you don't like the uni, especially with the unis around here.
Speaker 2:I think they have a very scripted way of writing yeah, and it's very make yourself look really professional.
Speaker 1:I mean, for me, the sillier you look, the better. Um, then after that. So it's almost like a three phaser. It's like if you can get through the door with a cv and portfolio, then you do. We do this way where we have an interview with either just myself or myself and hannah, um, where hannah does all the boring admin questions and goes through kind of a lot of that standard routine stuff. I'm there as a comedic break because typically I haven't got a clue what's going on, other than, like, I've seen your portfolio, I know who you are and I'm quite interested to employ you.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you work at a place.
Speaker 1:I'm almost there really to kind of sit back and see between the lines to see if your personality fits in. And then, once she's kind of done with her bit, I jump in. We have a bit of a chat, usually over a coffee, loosen people up a bit, because the boring stuff kind of gets them, gets all the like, loosens them up, gets it out of the way. Then, when it's out of the way, we can actually understand their personality. At that point, if we feel there's a reason or a way that they will work well within the team, we'll send out an informal offer of employment, which will be this is how much we think will be what we'd like to pay you. This is how like.
Speaker 1:These are the basic terms of this is how many holidays. This is our working routine, this is the perks, this is the benefits, these are blah, blah, blah. Go through all of that. If they say interested or they haggle for a price, that's also fine. At that point, once we've got to a point where it's the main terms are agreeable, we'll say cool, do you want to come back into the office and meet the rest of the team, almost like a secondary interview, just to hash out the terms and conditions of the full contract, meet the team, see the office, see the projects we work on, really get to understand everything in more depth we've done meet the team twice, haven't we?
Speaker 1:well, we've done it more times than that, you just haven't been here.
Speaker 2:I've been here for two and they've both gone completely differently. The two I've seen One of them they were around for like a couple of hours went out for a moment, just that, like, and it was on purpose so that we had a chance, so that she could ask questions. While you went in the room, I went to Mike for coffee Fucking questions while you weren't in the room and I went to mike for coffee. Fucking hilarious. How's it going? Oh god, I've got an interview.
Speaker 1:I'm running an interview at the moment and then well, because I'm gonna sell you the dream yeah I'm gonna be like come work.
Speaker 2:For me it's the best thing ever and the person who happened to be leaving at the time has sold you just everything bad. Well, that's that's the point, though, isn't it? That was funny, and then the most recent one was they now work here to be clear.
Speaker 1:Yes, and the most recent one was he kind of was just in for 10 minutes, said hello to everyone and then that was that, yeah it was funny because when we messaged to sort of say you know you're still interested, it it was funny because when we messaged to sort of say you know you're still interested, it was like, oh yeah, it was really great to meet the team. Really seemed to like them. I was like talk to them for about 10 seconds.
Speaker 2:But you know some people I think some people as well need a little splash in the pan, yeah, to get to sort of speak to people and then draw them back out and then, when they come back the second time they're a bit more loose and a bit more free about it I think it could be a bit overwhelming to, yeah, have never met anyone and suddenly be in the office talking, because that was the first interview as well, wasn't it? And so no we, I'd spoken to him a lot previously.
Speaker 1:All right, I'd done things individually with them, right. And then we kind of did the the main admin stuff and the meet the team in one sitting. Just because it was, I'd roughed him on the admin stuff. But I think it wasn't a time, it was a timescale thing, because he was still working somewhere and didn't have much time to be able to dedicate to an interview. So we sort of said, right, he said, oh, I've got a half day on this day. Can we get it in? Yes, of course we can, and then we'll discuss money and boring stuff when we're in. Yeah, that's how we like to do them.
Speaker 1:Obviously, not everywhere does it the same. Most places that do a two-phase system are usually whittling you down, not by your personality, but usually by it's almost like a bloody gladiatorial event. It feels like anyway, and that's how we operate it. We do the two-phase thing give you your job offer and then hopefully, you sign on and we have you in. Um, unless your name's theo, in which case then your mum threatens me. Not what happened. It's not. It's close, though. No, it's not.
Speaker 1:And I thought this last bit would be quite funny. So I asked chap gpt what it thought a good architect's cv. I only asked it cv because when I asked it about portfolios, it was talking about all sorts of stuff that was completely irrelevant. But a good architect cv? I only asked it cv because when I asked it about portfolios, it was talking about all sorts of stuff that was completely irrelevant. But a good architect cv should effectively showcase your skills, experience and creativity. Here are some key elements to consider and I'm going to tell you why most of them might not apply linkedin profile yeah, so no personal personal details.
Speaker 1:Name, contact information, linkedin profile and portfolio link ignore. Send your portfolio separately, but or if you have a digital one, do send it a link. Linkedin profile is a bit of a. Some people have made their own website before. That's quite cool, I like that yeah um, but the linkedin profile is a strange one. We're gonna do a social media check on you. Anyway, I'm gonna find you yeah, and I'm gonna take a look and see.
Speaker 2:If you're really good, you've already followed us. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Sweat. I mean, I have seen some times where someone's been very, I'm going to say, political in the posts that they make on their Facebook or something and obviously, with it being a public profile, you can kind of look at it and go, yeah, I don't want that and that's genuinely probably one of the main reasons that we've turned some potentially good people away, because we've looked and gone oh, that's not going to work, especially when, yeah, there's a lot of things on there that I definitely don't agree with. A professional summary, a brief statement highlighting your architectural focus, unique and skills and career objectives yeah, I think we covered that. That's a good bit to have. In education, obviously, degrees obtained, obtained universities attended, graduation dates, any special courses or training relevant to architecture. That's important information, very important information. Well, so far experience, detailed descriptions of previous roles, responsibilities, achievements and specific projects you've worked on. Include firm names, project names, dates and locations.
Speaker 1:The last bit a bit far obviously locations, yeah, yeah we're gonna need detailed description of your previous role, so that's fine, that'll give you your firm names. I don't necessarily need to know the project names, dates and locations. That feels like a bit much and some of it's going to be in the portfolio anyway and a lot of the time you don't know some of those bits of information, um and same with people who put the budget of the project in their portfolio and a CV. Even Skills is an interesting.
Speaker 2:I think skills should come across in the portfolio. I think the point of the portfolio is showing off your skills and saying I can use CAD, I can use.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can list me things that you've worked with and how long you've worked. So I've worked with CAD for three years. Don't grade yourself, just prove it. Yeah, let me grade you, just prove it. Yeah, you don't want me to grade you.
Speaker 2:I think saying I can do this and then actually proving you can do it is the yeah, technical skills like CAD, 3d, soft skills such as teamwork, communication and project.
Speaker 1:If anything, those last two teamwork and communication is probably more important.
Speaker 2:I hate some of the soft skill stuff guys. I hate that because, like, oh, I'm a good team worker yeah, everyone says that everyone's gonna say it. And if you're not shut up but it also, everyone is gonna say it, so it almost becomes a bit pointless to put in especially when we're looking typically for someone who'll take on responsibility of various bits.
Speaker 1:You almost don't need a team. You need to be one, for the jack of all trades, master of none. So you don't necessarily need master of all trades also yeah, just the best. We just want the best anyway. Certifications and licenses um any certifications or license yeah, obviously I suppose it's useful, I suppose. Yeah, Obviously I mean a lot of the time.
Speaker 2:If you're a qualified architect. It would be useful to know that, and we will also be checking that, yeah. I've got wires stuck on my feet.
Speaker 1:Funnily, everybody who came through as an ARB accredited architect had their registration number, so it made my life so easy.
Speaker 2:That's good, there you go, if you're accredited.
Speaker 1:So then the next bit they've put is portfolio highlights of re-description of your design.
Speaker 2:No not within. How about send me a portfolio?
Speaker 1:yeah um awards and honors. Relevant recognitions yeah, that's fine, that's good. Um professional affiliations members of architecture related organizations and societies you don't care if you're subscribed to the riba well, I just know what, though. It's the one that we get, which is like I chaired the society of left-handed people and you think, all right, cool beans, I mean, I get, it shows organizational skills in that, but what I mean if you organize plenty of nights out, that's a different story that's.
Speaker 2:That's relevant, that's relevant and key key skills. Oh, I arrange just the most fantastic gaff you've ever been to yeah oh yeah, good, let us know yeah but I, yeah, a lot of.
Speaker 2:It's kind of I think some people join them to say that I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of feelings if I think, okay, it's different. I think there's two sides. So if you are perhaps like an early stage student and you don't actually have lots of direct experience, then yes, because it's almost saying, well, here's the other ways that I can prove I can do it.
Speaker 1:But if you do have relevant experience, it's almost like, well, tell us about how you've got it from the experience the other thing, though, is we've had a few that have said oh, I've been the chair of this society or I've been involved in this, which shows my social skill, blah, blah, blah. Then, when you get them in the office for about 10 minutes and they go oh yeah, never really actually did anything, I just signed up to it, you're like why do you write about it?
Speaker 2:yeah, don't write about anything you can't talk about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is very true because we'll probably ask Personal interests. That one for me is a big one. Briefly include, don't briefly. I want to know more about your hobbies interests that showcase creativity. Don't need to show me your architectural enthusiasm or creativity. I want to know about you socially. That's important.
Speaker 2:Don't lie about your skills, because we can see right through it Within the first week, which goes hand in hand with the.
Speaker 1:don't rate your own skills.
Speaker 2:We'll see it on the portfolio. But if you say you're really good at SketchUp, which is a software we use, and you don't group, anything off.
Speaker 2:We will see on your first model that you've done a one-week crash course, and that goes for everyone. If you go to a firm that actually uses a lot of revit and you say, mate, you're not actually qualified, yeah, so just embrace that fact, learn how to use it and then go back in. But if, if you say you can do something you actually can't, that you're going to get found out so quick yeah and the next one, design, is people who work with that software every day, every day.
Speaker 1:They know what it is Intensely, yeah. And then design and layout Use clean, professional design and topography Typography Typography, typography.
Speaker 2:What the hell is wrong with me? The topography of the.
Speaker 1:CV yeah, it's very flat, it's just flat. There's not a single contour line on this. It's a bit 2D.
Speaker 2:Focus on readability and a modern aesthetic, not necessarily true, it's a CV that's subjective, it's a page of writing.
Speaker 1:Well, it could be two pages.
Speaker 2:I don't mind a two page.
Speaker 1:Three pages is too far, though. Consider using subtle colours and layouts that reflect you. I think we covered that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, also consider using bright colours. Yeah, also consider using bright colours. Oh, yeah, consider it all, just choose wisely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, make it relevant to your thing and then match your portfolio to it. Keywords no, no, because I can use the best one we had.
Speaker 2:I think titles and subtitles is different to keywords.
Speaker 1:I've noticed what some people will do. So in this it says include industry-relevant keywords that align with your job descriptions, which can help your cv pass through application tracking systems. We don't use one of those right.
Speaker 1:So if you're applying to the big firms, then but one thing that I've noticed with people who have definitely searched keywords in architecture and they've probably just copied a list from chat gpt is whenever you get to one of those keywords it's capitalized. So it'd be like you'd have like a sentence where obviously title letter so my name is blah, blah, blah and I'm interested in, and then it's like eco-friendly architecture where eco has a capital E comma, conservation capital.
Speaker 2:C. I have a biodiverse range of experience. Yeah, it's just yeah.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it doesn't even make sense and you look at it and go. You have found a list of things that people are looking for and you've copy and pasted it and because it's line by line, it's capitalized every time.
Speaker 2:On the flip to your opinion. Obviously proofread it. Make sure it doesn't look stupid.
Speaker 1:To contradict us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to disagree with you entirely, we got a talk from someone who was saying for a lot of the big firms.
Speaker 1:so again, this is like staking out who you're actually about to apply to yeah, um I'm gonna say it's difficult for me because I was never that high up inside the big firms.
Speaker 2:We had this person who came in to do a talk of applying to large architecture firms and she was saying there's this software that a lot of them use, where they will scan for keywords. No one will ever actually read that cv, it's just to see if they then ask you for the next part of it. So it actually is just.
Speaker 1:It's just in in a scannable way, being able to tick all of the boxes and that's one of them not using graphics within your cv and the bit that I then find is someone who puts in those keywords. You then ask them about those topics that they've mentioned and they just draw a blank. Or you look then through their portfolio and there is no relevant projects to any of that information that they've put in there. And you think you're very keen on bio, like biophilia, which is one of the big ones at the minute everything's brutalist.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not a single, not a single plant in any of your visuals, or or a single tree or a green roof or anything and a green roof's basic Everyone puts shoe holes, a green roof, into everything.
Speaker 2:I like that. I now know why I don't mind.
Speaker 1:yeah, bng biodiversity net gain, but I think, yeah, it did a pretty good job. It did a pretty good job, but I think Bear in mind things like ChatGPT are going to give you the generic. If you want to stand out, take those tips.
Speaker 2:Make spelling mistakes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then just change the words yeah, don't capitalize, put typography instead of typography, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think most of our advice is going to be very relevant to smaller firms. Yeah, and, as I said, I mentioned Particularly us. Yeah, especially us. Apply to us if you're good at the job or not, if you rate yourself highly.
Speaker 1:But show us that on the CV I want to see a bubble or a star.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I'm Star rate.
Speaker 1:Did that contradict it enough?
Speaker 2:I don't want AI brief me on what they've said to be able to get this out. Anyway, there's a lot of differences. When you're applying to massive firms, yeah, and they are looking for, as you say, other stuff, so don't follow our advice. If you're applying to them, no, no. The ultimate summary of this episode is do not follow any of the advice you've watched. Excellent, another episode well done, toodles.
Speaker 1:What were you going to say? I was going to say some of the stuff at the beginning was quite relevant, where it's make yourself stand out a bit, try not to be CC. Just try not to CC, just be. Oh no, try not to cc be a cool, cool cat and we will see you next time when we return back to the drawing board. Cool.
Speaker 2:Hiya, hello everyone. I'm Theo. No, you're not. Well, you are, I'm Phil, but that's never how we feel, is it? This is my intern, theo, and welcome back to the drum board. Oh, that's thrown you right off.
